There is, to my mind, something of an entitled attitude in a crowd which goes to ostensibly 'support' a team, only to quietly wait for that team to begin playing well enough to 'earn' their support; and if the team doesn't start well, the supporters stay silent until such time as the team gives them something to shout about. It never used to be like that. If supporters are the 12th man they're sometimes described as, in the above example the 12th man isn't pulling his weight. Perhaps there are occasions when the supporters should be subbed. Maybe a ginormous bench outside the ground full of substitute supporters to be brought on at an appropriate time. They of course pay for the privilege. I'll email Daniel.
When they are taught over the course of history to placate their broken hearts with praise for entertaining mode of play, winning becomes secondary to them as well. If ugly football wins a match, so be it. There are no awards for looking pretty,.
Although I watched the game live,I just did a catch-up of the”highlights” on MOTD.It was interesting that both Given and Rooney said that when it is obvious that playing out from the back is not working because you don’t have the players capable of doing so,then it is the responsibility of the players to take it upon themselves to work around the problem and change tactics.
Of course it helps if your senior players have leadership qualities and that’s where we fall down again and Son is in no way captain material and will not and does not lead by example.Maddison is too busy looking for petty fouls and Romero has mentally checked out of Spurs.And of course on the touchline Thick Dundee is as animated as a traffic cone.What a shit show.
I totally agreed with Given and Rooney. On the pitch, the players are responsible. No coach wants kamikaze football, but if players aren't able to differentiate between sensible and absurd passes we have a problem. From HH match report, we still played 60 long passes therefore it's not all 5 aside tike taka.
Agreed on Romero. Agreed, we have no leaders. There is no winning mentality. We don't have horrible players who the opposition will hate playing against. We have a lot of soft, nice lads. Great at a barbecue, but not in fight.
The coach should be able to legislate for mistakes ..one pass astray should not lead to a goal ..having the full back and the midfield so far up the park. These tactics simply do not work ….there are better coaches that can get more out of this group…..
Tavernier's goal had 4 player mistakes. Porro's decision to pass (he shouldn't have passed because Johnson was never going to get it), Johnson's position to receive was never going to get the ball (he looked like he was hiding. Wide players should play wide, he was too far inside), Danso missing the header, Spence not following his man or attacking the ball. Kerkes' cross was good, but it was in the air a long tome for the defenders to deal with. If we had good enough players that phase of play would have ended with a shot from ourselves and Spence wouldn't have needed to be called upon.
I know exactly what you mean by "the coach should be able to legislate for mistakes" but if this was the case no one would score would they? Bournemouth's goal was scored in transition after we had broken their press. We had plenty of players back, all in reasonable positions, it was that 2 of them made errors. Spence knows he has to stop Tavernier getting to the ball. It was his responsibility, but he switched off. Ange is to blame for a lot of things, but not not that goal. Human error is a given, it happens, just like the goal conceded v AZ or the 2 Romero passes. The team that make the fewest mistakes tend to win.
Our problem is we make too many individual errors. This can't be solely on Ange. Players are told to to play a certain way, but the 2 Romero passes were just stupid, no coach wants him to do that. The fact that we played 60 long passes tells everyone Spurs don't just play it short all the time. Spurs players' when at the back force the short pass too much, just like Russell Martin's Southampton. If the pass isn't on it should go long, Man City do this very well because they have Ederson, unfortunately we have Vicario who isn't very good at passing. If Ange is not telling players to clear when they should, and I'd be surprised if he isn't because we do play it long, then it is all on Ange for those mistakes.
I counter no one would score ..with the fact that too many teams score goals against us of a similar nature to that . We get turned over misplace a pass and they are off.
Ange may believe he is working width Klopps Liverpool but he isn’t . He should cut his cloth arc but he either doesn’t know how or is waiting for the pay cheque.
We've only conceded 3 more goals than Newcastle and Man City all season and six of those were against Liverpool in one game! The goals conceded, even without Vicario, Romero, Udogie and VDV out for most of the season hasn't been the issue, certainly not as bad as some think. Could we do better? Of course, even Liverpool could.
As for conceding goals of a similar nature, the likes of Porro, Romero, Sarr, Bissouma and Dragusin need to stop giving the ball away in stupid areas of the pitch. That is down to game intelligence, making the right decision at the right time and quality to control a pass. We have a bunch of unintelligent players who aren't good enough. Romero should never have passed to Bissouma in one of the chances we gave Bournemouth because Biss isn't good enough to deal with it. Romero should know that. He passed like he was passing to Messi.
Kulusevski is a leader for me and I don't think many players enjoy tangling with him, while Bergvall has a pleasing bit of nastiness in him for a raw kid. Spence and Gray are not soft lads. You are surely thinking of Johnson and Maddison?
Bergvall thinks he's hard, which is something I suppose, but he'd get a dry slap round my neck of the woods and run a mile. As yet, he can't back up the verbals or sly tackles. AZ bullied the kid something rotten last week and he needed someone to step in for him. Too many lads split things up instead of standing up for one another.
I haven't seen Kulu raise his voice at any of our incompetents in all the time he's been here, so a 'leader' is pushing it for me. Being ginger must mean something in the 'hard' stakes I suppose.
Vicario thinks he's a leader by telling off the kids but he shrank like chipolata in an ice bath when Romero royally messed up at the weekend. The lad's a coward.
Maddison are Johnson would cry if their products got wet in their wash bags.
There are some fanbases on the continent where the crowd chant, sing, scream and throw fireworks even if they are losing. English fans are a tad more fickle nowadays. Modern English fans need a reason to feel excited, although there are some home crowds where delirium is setting in more than others. If Man Utd or Arsenal win a throw these days it's as though they have won the Champions League. Maybe we need a bit of that! The middle classes are embedded though at our multi events arena, in their tens of thousands, with their 'Loadsamoney' attitude and unfortunately they're a little more reserved than the 70s council estate lads who urinated down the rolled up programme. There lies an issue.
However, Ange and his players need to give the fans something to shout about, like the 3-0 win over Arsenal under Conte, where the atmosphere before, during and after the game was electric. Maybe because there was something to play for hey? After being fed scraps for a long time this season it is difficult for the fans to lead the way anymore because there appears little purpose to it. Granted, the last game I went to was under Conte (nil all v Benitez's Everton at Goodison. 2 abject football teams doing their best to not score) and there was little cheer about, but the away support never stopped singing, they never do. When amongst that, it is easy to get drawn in and pulled along and soon you forget you have a mortgage and the wife eats eggs benedict for lunch!
The first thing I'd bin off would be that slow, boring, trumpet led 'Oh when the Spurs go marching in' 'anthem' that is about as inspiring as anthrax. Only Spurs could come up with that nonsense. We need some tub thumpin anthems, something that stirs emotion. Something that will get the fans riled, excited and in turn transfer to the players. Anything to get Porro, Romero, Bissouma, Sarr, Bentancur, Maddison, Jonson, Odobert, Tel, Richarlison, Solanke to pull their fingers out and start playing.
Fans in the Bundesliga will be paying around a third to a half as much as English fans for their match tickets their train fares etc. Most ( bar Wolfsburg) remain 51 % owned by the fans ..hence the excitement support flares and all sorts.
From what I’ve seen on You tube/ tele the Bundesliga second tier looks better supported in terms of noise than the EPL…the most overhyped league in the world.
I might of asked this before. Is it wrong that I can’t be arsed to listen to anything this chump has to say. The only thing I want to hear from his mouth is goodbye.
You’re absolutely right,I’m in the same camp.There is something very arrogantly dismissive in the way he constantly looks down and avoids any eye contact with the interviewers.I would give him some respect if he earns it,but he won’t be here long enough.
I think there's an upside to this buffoon staying in post. The results won't improve and Levy continues to refuse to sack him. More and more of the focus will be on Levy then. "Why won't he give him the boot?" Will be the cries. The bald fucker must be sweating profusely as he mulls over what to do next. He knows we ain't an overly attractive proposition to good coaches currently.
The focus has been on Levy since binning off Mourinho 6 days before a cup final and after Conte’s rant. Ange is somewhere between 5 and 8 mil a year..anyone decent will want more . We are run by a megalomaniac who has no love for football.
When there are no reasons what reasons do you need to be told.
Maybe its wishful but I think Levy is getting pressure from the Lewis trust to sell the team now while asset valuations are still close to all time highs and either has no time or sees no point in sacking Ange and bringing someone else in before new owners/mgmt come in and clean house as they wish.
A-cunt-ability.
There is, to my mind, something of an entitled attitude in a crowd which goes to ostensibly 'support' a team, only to quietly wait for that team to begin playing well enough to 'earn' their support; and if the team doesn't start well, the supporters stay silent until such time as the team gives them something to shout about. It never used to be like that. If supporters are the 12th man they're sometimes described as, in the above example the 12th man isn't pulling his weight. Perhaps there are occasions when the supporters should be subbed. Maybe a ginormous bench outside the ground full of substitute supporters to be brought on at an appropriate time. They of course pay for the privilege. I'll email Daniel.
Fans are part of a culture.
When they are taught over the course of history to placate their broken hearts with praise for entertaining mode of play, winning becomes secondary to them as well. If ugly football wins a match, so be it. There are no awards for looking pretty,.
Although I watched the game live,I just did a catch-up of the”highlights” on MOTD.It was interesting that both Given and Rooney said that when it is obvious that playing out from the back is not working because you don’t have the players capable of doing so,then it is the responsibility of the players to take it upon themselves to work around the problem and change tactics.
Of course it helps if your senior players have leadership qualities and that’s where we fall down again and Son is in no way captain material and will not and does not lead by example.Maddison is too busy looking for petty fouls and Romero has mentally checked out of Spurs.And of course on the touchline Thick Dundee is as animated as a traffic cone.What a shit show.
I totally agreed with Given and Rooney. On the pitch, the players are responsible. No coach wants kamikaze football, but if players aren't able to differentiate between sensible and absurd passes we have a problem. From HH match report, we still played 60 long passes therefore it's not all 5 aside tike taka.
Agreed on Romero. Agreed, we have no leaders. There is no winning mentality. We don't have horrible players who the opposition will hate playing against. We have a lot of soft, nice lads. Great at a barbecue, but not in fight.
No leaders, because leaders who can also play football well cost money, and want to be paid the going rate...
Yup
The coach should be able to legislate for mistakes ..one pass astray should not lead to a goal ..having the full back and the midfield so far up the park. These tactics simply do not work ….there are better coaches that can get more out of this group…..
Tavernier's goal had 4 player mistakes. Porro's decision to pass (he shouldn't have passed because Johnson was never going to get it), Johnson's position to receive was never going to get the ball (he looked like he was hiding. Wide players should play wide, he was too far inside), Danso missing the header, Spence not following his man or attacking the ball. Kerkes' cross was good, but it was in the air a long tome for the defenders to deal with. If we had good enough players that phase of play would have ended with a shot from ourselves and Spence wouldn't have needed to be called upon.
I know exactly what you mean by "the coach should be able to legislate for mistakes" but if this was the case no one would score would they? Bournemouth's goal was scored in transition after we had broken their press. We had plenty of players back, all in reasonable positions, it was that 2 of them made errors. Spence knows he has to stop Tavernier getting to the ball. It was his responsibility, but he switched off. Ange is to blame for a lot of things, but not not that goal. Human error is a given, it happens, just like the goal conceded v AZ or the 2 Romero passes. The team that make the fewest mistakes tend to win.
Our problem is we make too many individual errors. This can't be solely on Ange. Players are told to to play a certain way, but the 2 Romero passes were just stupid, no coach wants him to do that. The fact that we played 60 long passes tells everyone Spurs don't just play it short all the time. Spurs players' when at the back force the short pass too much, just like Russell Martin's Southampton. If the pass isn't on it should go long, Man City do this very well because they have Ederson, unfortunately we have Vicario who isn't very good at passing. If Ange is not telling players to clear when they should, and I'd be surprised if he isn't because we do play it long, then it is all on Ange for those mistakes.
I counter no one would score ..with the fact that too many teams score goals against us of a similar nature to that . We get turned over misplace a pass and they are off.
Ange may believe he is working width Klopps Liverpool but he isn’t . He should cut his cloth arc but he either doesn’t know how or is waiting for the pay cheque.
We've only conceded 3 more goals than Newcastle and Man City all season and six of those were against Liverpool in one game! The goals conceded, even without Vicario, Romero, Udogie and VDV out for most of the season hasn't been the issue, certainly not as bad as some think. Could we do better? Of course, even Liverpool could.
As for conceding goals of a similar nature, the likes of Porro, Romero, Sarr, Bissouma and Dragusin need to stop giving the ball away in stupid areas of the pitch. That is down to game intelligence, making the right decision at the right time and quality to control a pass. We have a bunch of unintelligent players who aren't good enough. Romero should never have passed to Bissouma in one of the chances we gave Bournemouth because Biss isn't good enough to deal with it. Romero should know that. He passed like he was passing to Messi.
Kulusevski is a leader for me and I don't think many players enjoy tangling with him, while Bergvall has a pleasing bit of nastiness in him for a raw kid. Spence and Gray are not soft lads. You are surely thinking of Johnson and Maddison?
Bergvall thinks he's hard, which is something I suppose, but he'd get a dry slap round my neck of the woods and run a mile. As yet, he can't back up the verbals or sly tackles. AZ bullied the kid something rotten last week and he needed someone to step in for him. Too many lads split things up instead of standing up for one another.
I haven't seen Kulu raise his voice at any of our incompetents in all the time he's been here, so a 'leader' is pushing it for me. Being ginger must mean something in the 'hard' stakes I suppose.
Vicario thinks he's a leader by telling off the kids but he shrank like chipolata in an ice bath when Romero royally messed up at the weekend. The lad's a coward.
Maddison are Johnson would cry if their products got wet in their wash bags.
There are some fanbases on the continent where the crowd chant, sing, scream and throw fireworks even if they are losing. English fans are a tad more fickle nowadays. Modern English fans need a reason to feel excited, although there are some home crowds where delirium is setting in more than others. If Man Utd or Arsenal win a throw these days it's as though they have won the Champions League. Maybe we need a bit of that! The middle classes are embedded though at our multi events arena, in their tens of thousands, with their 'Loadsamoney' attitude and unfortunately they're a little more reserved than the 70s council estate lads who urinated down the rolled up programme. There lies an issue.
However, Ange and his players need to give the fans something to shout about, like the 3-0 win over Arsenal under Conte, where the atmosphere before, during and after the game was electric. Maybe because there was something to play for hey? After being fed scraps for a long time this season it is difficult for the fans to lead the way anymore because there appears little purpose to it. Granted, the last game I went to was under Conte (nil all v Benitez's Everton at Goodison. 2 abject football teams doing their best to not score) and there was little cheer about, but the away support never stopped singing, they never do. When amongst that, it is easy to get drawn in and pulled along and soon you forget you have a mortgage and the wife eats eggs benedict for lunch!
The first thing I'd bin off would be that slow, boring, trumpet led 'Oh when the Spurs go marching in' 'anthem' that is about as inspiring as anthrax. Only Spurs could come up with that nonsense. We need some tub thumpin anthems, something that stirs emotion. Something that will get the fans riled, excited and in turn transfer to the players. Anything to get Porro, Romero, Bissouma, Sarr, Bentancur, Maddison, Jonson, Odobert, Tel, Richarlison, Solanke to pull their fingers out and start playing.
Fans in the Bundesliga will be paying around a third to a half as much as English fans for their match tickets their train fares etc. Most ( bar Wolfsburg) remain 51 % owned by the fans ..hence the excitement support flares and all sorts.
From what I’ve seen on You tube/ tele the Bundesliga second tier looks better supported in terms of noise than the EPL…the most overhyped league in the world.
In Germany, the game isn't completely in the control of cunts...
Agreed on all fronts
I might of asked this before. Is it wrong that I can’t be arsed to listen to anything this chump has to say. The only thing I want to hear from his mouth is goodbye.
You’re absolutely right,I’m in the same camp.There is something very arrogantly dismissive in the way he constantly looks down and avoids any eye contact with the interviewers.I would give him some respect if he earns it,but he won’t be here long enough.
I stop listening because it’s clear he has no clue what he’s doing. Always a blame game.
There is also that of course.
I think there's an upside to this buffoon staying in post. The results won't improve and Levy continues to refuse to sack him. More and more of the focus will be on Levy then. "Why won't he give him the boot?" Will be the cries. The bald fucker must be sweating profusely as he mulls over what to do next. He knows we ain't an overly attractive proposition to good coaches currently.
The focus has been on Levy since binning off Mourinho 6 days before a cup final and after Conte’s rant. Ange is somewhere between 5 and 8 mil a year..anyone decent will want more . We are run by a megalomaniac who has no love for football.
When there are no reasons what reasons do you need to be told.
Maybe its wishful but I think Levy is getting pressure from the Lewis trust to sell the team now while asset valuations are still close to all time highs and either has no time or sees no point in sacking Ange and bringing someone else in before new owners/mgmt come in and clean house as they wish.
Probably wishful thinking.
We can only hope!
😑 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
Are you one of the dying breed of Levyologists?
Far from it, Mr C occasionally lapses into a coma when Ange speaks!
Twat..